rebowing in Solo Strings is really bad, or isn't it?

Juergen

Dear Support-Team,

I buyed 2 days ago the spitfire solo strings. I have read all the comments from the users.

Now, I have also the opinion, that the sound is very good of all 6 instruments.

But - and I haven’t believe this not further, but its true, that the rebowing on long notes is not really good for such an great library!

Only the long progressive vibrato cello sound had a rebowing, that is acceptable. All other articulations have a much to early rebowing with a bad disturb-sound!

My wife plays cello herself and I know, if a rebowing is good or bad. Its not easy to learn, but in such a library I would have expected a better transition in the rebowing.

Please make an update of this rebowing in all of the articulations of all the solo instruments quick!

Or - give me a trick to get a better result for this. Do you know the piece for piano and cello from Arvo Pärt „Mirror in the Mirror“? Its very slow with long notes over 3 bars. 80 bpm in an 6/4 Bar. I can’t play it smoothly with any of the solo cello articulations. Every time you can hear some bad noises in the transitions. And it should be very quiet.

If you have a tip, please inform me. But it is necessary for your company to make an update for this problem.

Tanks for the good sound as well,

Jürgen

Jürgen Bröhl 

tonstudio ölmühle 

Mühlenweg 2 

56414 Steinefrenz 

[email protected]

www.tonstudio-oelmuehle.de

Tel.: 06435-966804

Edward

I'll have to go back and find which note it is - but there's a note in the SS basses that has a bow crossing right at the onset of the note - fortunately it's high in the basses' range and not commonly used. Do people not notice that stuff? I assume it has to do with where the loop is - but you shouldn't hear a bow change near the onset of the note.

Harp swarms is even worse there's a flurry of wrong notes at the onset of a few of the higher notes from the tremolo patch. It first dips down a few steps before settling into the tremolo. With care I might be able to fix it - but Harp Swarms is a monolithic NKI - no external editor can be used on the waves....

Alexander Kempf

I am experiencing the exact same problem. All long notes I tried out so far almost sound like re-triggering after 1-2 seconds. It makes them virtually unusable. Only the progressive patches seem OK but they lack the smooth transitions of the legato patches.

Am I doing something wrong here - or is this just a German problem :)

Angus

@Juergen the rebows that are heard in this pack where recorded as part of the sample library, and therefore cannot be change by the user. They have been kept in to make the playing style feel more natural, and work best when not composing to tempo. However, we do understand that this can be annoying if you are composing a slower tempo piece. The workaround here would be to use the Dynamic slider (CC1) and put a sharp V in the dynamics automation where you think the player would naturally rebow the note. This will allow you to transition through the sample layers, and thus, retrigger the sample layer again to prevent the rebow being heard.

Alternatively, I would recommend using the Longs technique, if you own the full Solo Strings pack, that are available in the standard instrument patches.

Bill

I have the individual solo violin and cello instruments and the solo strings. I have tried the "V" technique using both of these sets of instruments (longs as well as con sords) and have not found that it affects when the re-bow occurs.

As far as I can tell, a note is triggered only when you send a note-on to the instrument, not when moving through the dynamic layers with CC1, even to zero. If changing CC1 caused a retrigger, I can't see how it would be possible to move smoothly through the dynamic layers, since there is a noticeable delay when a note is triggered. Spitfire specifically mentions this as a feature that adds to the realism of the strings.

Has anyone actually been successful using this technique?

In any case, it is problematic that the re-bowing point can't be controlled. I think a real player would re-bow in keeping with the music, not at a set time interval, which, BTW, varies depending on which of the violins you use. Otherwise, I've found these instruments to be quite playable.

Selumiel

Same problem here.... and there is no easy way to handle this...

Please add this function for user who need no bow change like me...I

This is the desciption if user select or unselect the option ∞ Bow (red arrow):

Unselected, this includes Taylor's natural bow changes on sustained notes. Selected, it allows you to extend the bow length as needed. Simply re-attack a note (quickly) when you need a bow change on the same note.

____

Please update Spitfire, thank you!

Edward

"They have been kept in to make the playing style feel more natural"

String players don't generally change bows 1 sec after onset of a long note.

Angus

Thanks all for additional feedback. As mentioned, there is currently no workaround other than the method mentioned above. If you use the full Solo Strings library, you can of course also use the Long articulation, which is easier to control. That said, I have made this a feature request with our engineering, and though that does not guarantee anything will change, they have shown a willingness to investigate an additional feature in the future.

Timo

https://community.spitfireaudio.com/discussion/comment/3325#Comment_3325

That feature is really awesome (use it in Tina Guo Solo Cello) and I would LOVE to see it in Spitfire Solo Strings!

Stephane

https://community.spitfireaudio.com/discussion/comment/5607#Comment_5607

I've got that Tina Guo vol. 2 library as well and it's absolutely wonderful.

Nic

I don't know how Spitfire does their scripting, and it might be spaghetti code behind the scenes...

If it isn't, though, and the programming practices are clean on the backend, I think it should be as easy as using the Longs sample, and replacing the rebowing legato samples, and using the same legato transition.

Orchestral Tools's Sine player does this, and it allows users to enable or de-enable legato transitions on any long articulation.

This would mean a nice update to SSoS, giving users a new patch "Legato (No rebow)", and should be fairly straightforward to implement.

That said, I'm sure decisions like this aren't "Oh that's a good idea, get Dave to do that" at a big company like Spitfire, so if they decided it was worthwhile, the update would take a while to occur.

MichelCompagna

Same problem. Infinite bow would be very useful.

Krisp

I pray day and night for such an update ;)

Doc_Malaga

I bought the Solo violin last year and was quite impressed with its beautiful sound. It's tone and color is perfect for slow sweeping lyrical melodies, and - oh wait - what's this? A really obvious rebow that sounds terrible in the middle of my long notes?

Like many others here, I am quite frustrated with the invasive rebow, nowhere in live recordings of slow passages have I heard this, and the argument that this instrument is more for fast notes is absurd, why limit it in this way, when a violin in one of the chief instruments for heart-wrenching beautiful expressive melodic lines? These are impossible to play with this instrument and I have to resort to the very much less beautiful Kontakt Factory library solo violin when I need one...

I know I shouldn't complain, especially for the price the solo violin is selling at, but just this one point makes it extremely difficult to use satisfactorily and it is frustrating given the fact that the sound is great. I definitely hope Spitfire will be looking into this, it seems that this is not an issue of only a few.

aldous

@Doc_Malaga In case it helps, I found that spending most of the time on the lowest dynamics, where rebowings aren’t at all frequent, helped a lot. In other words, for slower passages, I would shift my dynamics downwards compared to other instruments.

The rebows get more frequent even at medium dynamic values, but that’s useful if I want to bring a rebow forward to a point where it’s more natural, say.

Krisp

Yes absolutely, that's how I also proceed, but it's a shame anyway. And it becomes really difficult when you use the library together as a string quartet. But the sound is sublime!

(Have you heard the viola??? He is wonderful!!!! I didn't expect this quality!)