Tips on how to mix, EQ, or pan the BBCSO Core instruments?

haralddaviking

Does anyone have any tips or tricks they're willing to share on how to mix, EQ, or pan the BBCSO Core instruments? I've been listening to the works of other composers who use BBCSO and they sound clearer and more dynamic than what I've been able to achieve. I think Taron's pieces on soundcloud.com are good examples, as the production is very good (the ideas/compositions are also really good -- compliments to Taron). I think Luke Olney's "Man's Best Friend" is also a very nice example. Questions:

- I normally leave the volume (expression) near max for each instrument/section. I use the mod wheel (dynamics) to change the volume and timbre of the instruments throughout a piece. Should I be using expression more? Would it be helpful to automate and adjust the volume for say the entire string, wind, or brass sections throughout a piece?

- I normally don't add EQ to any of the BBCSO instruments. Are there particular instruments that benefit from EQ and if so, which? Should the master track have some EQ? Is there a particular EQ plugin that you'd recommend?

- I normally leave the pan control centered for the BBCSO instruments. Would it help to widen the soundstage to get a clearer sound and if so, which instruments would be best to pan?

- I usually use the legato articulation. Are there other articulations that can help produce either a clearer sound or a sound with more punch/power?

Also, I'm pretty sure part of my problem is that my orchestrations are substandard, as I'm a beginner and still learning about which instruments work well together and how to arrange chords/harmonies amongst the different instruments. 

Any tips or links that might help are appreciated -- thanks!

Angus

Hi @haralddaviking

EQ can certainly help in particular contexts. For example, you might want an instrument to sound brighter by increases the high shelf gain. You might want a bass instrument to sound warmer by bumping the gain at 100Hz. A good EQ trick is to also use a high Q, which you can then use to glide through the different frequencies in order to find inharmonic frequencies. Once you've found them, you then simply cut the gain at that frequency.

In terms of using only Legato- it isn't a catch all for all types of articulations. You'll want to use Staccatos for short notes, or Longs when you need to double up on the instrument line. Guy Michelmore has a great video on this subject below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl5ytvvBPGo

aldous

Hi - I'm pretty new to BBCSO too, so I'll look forward to others' answers...! I expect you've already watched all the videos, but definitely recommend it if not: Christian's various videos on orchestral programming, mixing and the BBCSO templates, combined with Paul's walk-throughs, together form "the manual" for me. I don't feel qualified to offer advice, but here are a few things I wish I'd learned sooner:

• I thought I could do without expression since it was "just volume"; or I would just used a few curves to make a static mix. But I've since "realised" (having been told 100 times in aforementioned videos) that it's pretty much an indispensable part of getting life into the instruments. The way I see it now, it lets you access more variation by breaking the strong, potentially-repetitive relationship between loudness and timbre that you'd get with dynamics alone. Vibrato doesn't get mentioned nearly as much as dynamics and expression, but I think the same thing applies... of the three, I find vibrato hardest to get right.
• Also, using dynamics alone, I would have missed a lot of nice sounds from hearing quieter dynamics played louder. E.g. especially for the horns and other brass, I might want to get the timbre entirely from inside the lower half of the dynamics slider, even for the louder sections. I missed these until I got into the habit of moving expression around liberally, and of course it lets you make up some of the lost volume range. I also sometimes use an external gain unit in order to leave the instrument's full range of expression available for "played expression". (Or use volume, but I like to leave that un-automated and close to 0db.) I may put a compressor or limiter on the dynamics controller so that mistakes don't get too uncomfortably loud.
• Talking of mistakes: even though I find it hard to do a good job playing and moving controllers at the same time, I still find that playing stuff in and tidying it if necessary (ahem, when necessary) gives better results than programming.
• I don't count myself as a good EQer, but all I really tend to do is a subtle cut in the mids, where I find things can get a bit piled up. I like the bottom end of the strings, but I find cutting back a little there too can help depending on how they're being used and what else is going on.
• On articulations with more punch, if there isn't one that hits the spot then layering articulations can be useful... probably the classic example being to layer a staccato note under a long to add a bit more attack. I personally find it difficult to get the marcato articulation to fit a lot of the time, so layering offers some middle ground.

Hope that helps!

haralddaviking

Thanks for the tips!

I watched Guy's videos on articulations, dynamics, legatos, etc., as well as a number of Paul Thompson's videos -- all very helpful. As an exercise to practice some of what I learned, I recreated the theme music from the TV series Star Trek: Voyager using Spitfire Audio’s BBC Symphony Orchestra Core sample library and the free Cakewalk DAW. A .ZIP of the project which includes the mp3 audio file are attached.

ST Voyager BBCSO exercise - for educational purposes.zip

I used many instrument articulations and layering of articulations and instruments to try to get a big “movie score” type sound from BBCSO Core. The articulations I used are outlined in the project notes file and detailed, along with the dynamics CC1 data, in the Cakewalk project.

I hope others find this useful. Suggestions for improvements are welcome!

hdv  

LMC

- I normally leave the pan control centered for the BBCSO instruments. Would it help to widen the soundstage to get a clearer sound and if so, which instruments would be best to pan?

I normally don't add EQ to any of the BBCSO instruments. Are there particular instruments that benefit from EQ and if so, which? Should the master track have some EQ? Is there a particular EQ plugin that you'd recommend?

Go have a look at Warren Huart's YT Channel (Produce Like A Pro) who explains and demonstrates how and why EQ and Panning is used in a mix and other superb tips on Mixing and Producing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE1Ov-ObLv0

JimDiGritz

Don't use your DAW panning, this is just a L/R volume and will affect the stereo image...

The BBCSO instruments are already recorded in place as part of the mix.

I do think, however, that some instruments could benefit from an EQ bump (eg Brass) in some situations to get them to a more 'cinematic' sound... I've not done this myself but worth experimenting..

Londoneye330

Hello!

With so many great tips above, it isn't much more to add to it!

Personally I do pan my instruments by just a little. Normally the stereo image is compressed as they deliver it in a VST package, so I pan just a little wider than it is out of the box, not more than 10-15.

Another thing I may add (which is slightly unrelated) is the velocity of the notes, sometimes keeping an eye on your velocity, especially on the short notes and on percussion. Sometimes you may want them to vary, with downbeats being a bit heavier, or maybe varying the velocity by just a smudge for each note to make a realistic effect. This, combined with the round robins that most libraries have, and the slightly imperfect quantization, will make your instruments sound realistic.

Another thing I have done in the past is that I used velocity instead of dynamics to layer various elements in a piece. One example would be ostinatos, I usually will have one layer that is more prominent, and the other ones a bit "laid back" by simply changing the velocities. But again, sometimes I would put variation in them. Nowadays, I do this mostly for any strings shorts, percussion, and also piano.

In terms of EQ, I have a few presets that I can apply on certain instruments if I want them to sound a little more... Cinematic, instead of realistic.

I use two of them the most: one is for the French Horn, where I boosted a certain frequency to make it sound super brassy and cinematic. The other EQ preset is for the Timpani, where I attenuate frequencies if I want to make is sound muted or damper.

I don't EQ my mix a lot (which I should). When I do, I remembered that a general rule of thumb is that attenuating a frequency is usually better than boosting a frequency. It doesn't mean never boost anything, but just something to keep in mind. Also, I found that minor adjustments up to +/-3dB should usually be enough. (For a realistic mix)

haralddaviking

London, would you be willing to divulge the EQ curve you're using for the French horn? Thanks!